Malaria drug not looking promising

"MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s" (mastermario) 04/21/2020 at 14:52 • Filed to: None

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TheRealBicycleBuck > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:01

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Add some text or a headline into your post so we can get to it more easily. Right now, it’s just a blank.

boredalways > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:06

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Interesting that some of the patients were given Z-packs as well with no good result.

Going forward, I wonder what other bullshit drugs that TrumpsterFire has a finacial stake in will he try to hype?

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > boredalways 04/21/2020 at 15:08

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Yea, that was interesting too. Though they mention the difference wasn’t significant enough to draw a conclusion.

Brickman > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:21

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I read R emdesivir is helping at least as far as we know.

Future next gen S2000 owner > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:27

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I’m not surprised really. Any study that saw some benefit noted that the benefit from the drug was minor in those cases.

All the downside of the drug with no upside. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:28

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Better!

Full of the sound of the Gran Fury, signifying nothing. > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:37

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Of course. Now, can my aunt, who has Lupus, get her medications again?

Snuze: Needs another Swede > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:40

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Whatever, I’mma keep drinking G&Ts. Quinine in tonic is basically there to prevent malaria, and I haven’t gotten Corona yet, so it must be working! Suck it, science!

Chariotoflove > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 15:56

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In my quick scan, I could not find specification of the dosage for these patients, nor whether the dosage was consistent for all groups at all locations. As mentioned the Discussion, normal dosage for approved treatments is quite a bit lower than what in vitro studies would suggest are effective as antiviral . At approved therapeutic concentrations, this is a very safe drug. If these studies are seeing an association with cardiomyopathy, I really want to know the dose.

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Chariotoflove 04/21/2020 at 16:12

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From the Brazil study mentioned

In total, 440 participants (220 per arm) will receive either high dose chloroquine 600 mg bid regime (4x150 mg tablets, every 12 hours, D1-D10) or low dose chloroquine 450mg bid regime (3x150mg tablets + 1 placebo tablet every 12 hours on D1, 3x150mg tablets + 1 placebo followed by 4 placebo tablets 12h later from D2 to D5, and 4 placebo tablets every 12 hours, D6-D10).

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04323527

Chariotoflove > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 18:29

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Thank you.  But was that the same as in the VA patient sample?

LastFirstMI is my name > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/21/2020 at 19:34

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The original Raoult hydroxychloroquine case series was “Trumped” up even though it had no control group at all; this VA study was not randomized and will be interpreted as inconclusive by those who understand it, “fake news” by the Trumpists, and heralded as the ultimate rebuke of Trump by the MSNBC/CNN infotainment pundits.

It is completely possible that only sicker patients got the drugs, or only patients at a hospital that was doing other things very differently, or some other confounding variable. I’ll wait for the randomized studies. Meanwhile I’m taking zinc and will take hydroxychloroquine if I haven’t already had it and  get sick, not much down side.

DipodomysDeserti > Chariotoflove 04/21/2020 at 21:18

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The discussion section mentions that the serum  EC50 for hydroxy chloroquine in preventing Covid symptoms has been found to be 4.5-17 uM. The EC50 for use on lupus and rheumatoid arthritis is listed as about 1uM. They mention that other chloroquine studies were halted after increased toxicity in patients. I have enough knowledge to understand what that means, but not to comment on whether those numbers are valid.

The study is obviously extremely limited, though. All the patients were male with a majority being black, and everyone knew who was being treated with what. 

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > Chariotoflove 04/22/2020 at 08:58

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Here is the VA study report...though it doesn’t seem to contain any details on the actual doses. It does mention this though, “Hydroxychloroquine has been reported to inhibit SARS-CoV-2 replication in vitro with a 50% maximal effective concentration (EC50) ranging from 4.5 M to 17 M.”  

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.16.20065920v1.full.pdf

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > LastFirstMI is my name 04/22/2020 at 09:03

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It seems this study in Brazil that was halted due to concerns with the patients hearts on this level of hydroxychloroquine was randomized. Though I’m by no means an expert on this sort of thing.  

https://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT04323527

Chariotoflove > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/22/2020 at 12:08

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 I did see that part.  That’s what led me to wonder about the dosages and whether or not they were the same across all centers. I think all can agree at this point that efficacy (at least under the parameters so far reported) is highly suspect.  What interests me is the side issue of how people keep asserting an association of cardiac toxicity with a drug that is normally so safe, at least according to the people I know that prescribe it. It’s an interesting physiological question to me.

LastFirstMI is my name > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 04/22/2020 at 15:10

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Yeah, they were studying chloroquine which is not as safe as hydroxychloroquine, and Covid causes heart inflammation in some patients anyway, so we’ll see what works in time for the second wave